Another thought to consider: If God is love and desires for all to be saved, why would He choose not to save certain people? Of the other two, one died-having no depth of root; and, the other was choked out by its representative persons being focused on the riches and cares of this world. The unnecessary kicker is that it will inspire you, if you really die to yourself, to evangelize, out of real love and trust that you received from Creator God, not out of compulsion and striving this time. God did not over-rule this exercise nor its results, as we read, "...and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof." However, they call attention to the significance of the phrase "in Him." The points of Calvinism include total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement, irresistible grace, perseverance of the saints, and being a condescending jerk. We’re on a mission to change that. 12), Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 06/09/2020 - 14:47, In reply to That only means God must… by Dennis McCallum. Now our faith in believing in this liberating power is through God's grace in as much as our freedom was the work of the Godhead. Submitted by John Mason on Tue, 06/09/2020 - 14:33, In reply to When I come to a teaching… by Travis Mathes, The problem I see with your position, is that it is hard to square your position with history and the reality that we see in the world. Submitted by josh on Tue, 06/09/2020 - 14:16. for me let's read what the bible saw about it .i just want to share please read .Eph. What changed is the state of free will. To attribute the cause exclusively to the Father regardless of the response of the person, flies in the face of the stated will of the Father in vs. 40 that "Everyone who beholds the Son and believes in him" be saved. You have the words of eternal life. 1. Was it not born unto "life"? Ephesians 4:3-6 What are the five points of Calvinism vs. the five points of Arminianism? Arminians argue that the first part of Romans 9 deals with God's choice of nations and their roles in his plans. Plus, innate in Koine is the orientation to cater to the other's perspective. Jack Cottrell writes that Arminianism “was the consensus belief in Christendom prior to Augustine (A.D. 354–430).” and they have closed their eyes. In reply to We all believe God is… by S. T. Thank you so much for expressing my thoughts more eloquently than I could. Some Arminians acknowledge that Paul may have been unconditionally elected and irresistibly called by God, but point out that this does not prove that God deals with all people in this way. The Good Shepherd. Submitted by Kim on Tue, 06/09/2020 - 14:34, In reply to If election is true, then… by Confused. The same is true of other philosophical-theological systems such as Calvinism or Arminianism. The individual cannot refuse God's choice, therefore, Arminians reply that "those given to me" in 37 are the same as those who "believe in him" in vs. 40. It's been a long-standing debate! If one had the option to kill them right away, I bet there would be no hesitation, but God, someone who hates sin, was patient choosing not to destroy them instantly. A final word, I was told by one of my elders that, in my words, this god of Calvinism is evil. Being dead and deserving of wrath, we are made alive with Christ by the riches of God's great love and mercy. For biblical context GOD informs us through revelation of the HOLY SPIRIT that in Isaiah 6:3 and Revelation 4:8 not just holy, not just holy, holy but holy, holy, holy... in reference to the LORD, is the LORD...! ", "You did not choose Me, but I chose you, and appointed you, that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain...", "And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed. It’s not in the Bible. It is clear that they were appointed to stumble because they were disobedient in the same way as those who were hard of heart in the time of Isaiah (Is. Is there injustice in what was impossible for the flesh to do with respect to the promise - NO! Nothing I have seen in this world and nobody I have spoken to has shaken my faith. Adam had a choice to obey or not and so do we. "Choose this day whom you will serve." Oh I can give you 1 verse and then ask you a question: Read 1 Thessalonians 2: 13-16 ... specificly, verse 16... and then, please, my dear brother, tell me ( the most honest way you can) how do WE, GENTILES... or, if you want it that way, PEOPLE get saved, according to verse 16? Then came the law where God had chosen his elect. 5By faith Enoch was taken up so that he did not see death. Even my favorite, the NASB, is tortured in conspicuously tortured especially in Eph, especially Eph1:11 FOUR or more words are mis-matched. Why do we think we know better how God needs to act than what He tells us. ), "For you were called to FREEDOM, brothers. Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 06/09/2020 - 14:08. The Latin form of his name is what he is most remembered by today—Jacob Arminius. 25They disagreed among themselves and began to leave after Paul had made this final statement: “The Holy Spirit was right when He spoke to your fathers through Isaiah the prophet: 26‘Go to this people and say, “You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.” God is sovereign. Submitted by Dennis McCallum on Tue, 06/09/2020 - 14:33, In reply to Here is a simple question… by David, That only means God must draw or call/empower someone to believe before they can do so. But I concluded it would have been counted as sin. 29; 35; 40; and 47. Ephesians 1:5 ESV / 89 helpful votes. Calvinism is named for John Calvin, a French theologian who lived from 1509-1564. It matters how we interpret Scripture. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified." I would say the key difference is how we get saved. Even as Jonah resists, seeking his own way (away), the grace of God overruled Jonah's position that they deserved destruction (which he eagerly waited for-even after his preaching from his elevated perch outside of the city). (Freedom to sin? 2:1? God veils his truth to those who stubbornly disobey his word (Mt. Reading Dave Hunt's 'What Love is This" helped clear my confused Calvinist mind as well. It seems to be very questionable theology for people to think of God in that untruthful way. states that the vessels of mercy are "us, whom He called not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles,"" (i.e. Submitted by Judy FitzGerald on Tue, 06/09/2020 - 14:29, In reply to Whenever the New Testament… by Corey Friend. The obscure 2Pet2:1 is the only real difficulty for Calvinism to explain, yet it can be reasonably, to see that if it were Arminian it would not be written in such an irregular, unclear way. make clear that the context is that of national choice. Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 06/09/2020 - 14:27, In reply to In 1996 God graciously made… by Anonymous. We are His children "if" we are led by the spirit and not the flesh. Submitted by Harry on Sun, 08/30/2020 - 10:52, In reply to You are referencing the same… by Nathan. ", Arminians point out that the participle "previously marked out" (. Submitted by Unknown on Fri, 09/04/2020 - 17:58, Submitted by Daryl Rogers on Tue, 06/09/2020 - 14:08. If the sinner is spiritually dead then salvation is totally the work of a sovereign and gracious God who in His love elects some and in His justice allows the non-elect to face what we all deserve, condemnation, BUT GOD... Eph. Ordo Salutis Order of Salvation. And how can they hear without someone to preach? Think in terms of not present tense, future tense or past tense but in a "prophetic perfect" tense. Now that you are no longer dead (nekrous) in your sins, you’re finally able to make and unable to resist making a decision for Christ but you’re already saved. Then I am going to give him what he asked for. These phrases are taken to mean that God has sovereignly decided in advance who will be saved, completely irrespective of human choice. Anybody believe that he can understands how the sovereignty of God works in harmony with all his other attributes is mistake. Submitted by David on Tue, 06/09/2020 - 14:13. 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